As a matter of fact, that may have been the first campfire cartridge argument I was privy to; if only those gentlemen wouldve realized the fire theyd kindled. Winchester claims the cartridge has 20 percent more penetration and 20 percent less recoil than the .243 Winchester, yet that comparison though it may be perfectly viable didnt exactly translate well to me. For instance, Remington also sells 150gr load that produces velocities around 2,300 feet per second. with bullets between 200 grains and 220 grains. 30-30 vs 45-70 WHICH LEVER ACTION IS BEST FOR YOU TO HUNT WITH? all were more powerful-and may have been excellent hunting cartridges-but they are gone; rejected by the shooting public and banished to the junk heap of obsolescence. Developed in the days before ballistic coefficient was a talking point at gun counters, these cartridges tend to use wide, stubby bullets that cant maintain velocity at extended ranges. Mag. I can certainly see the Midwest deer hunters making a switch to the 350 Legend over any of the .40 to .45 caliber cartridges, as the 350 Legend offers the Goldilocks just right formula: a good balance of striking power and ease of shooting. Its thought to be the rifle legendary stock detective Tom Horn used for his assassinations, and African professional hunter Wally Johnson even used a .30/30 with success on lions. Of the Winchester cartridges, only the .30-30 Win. Savage Arms has announced the newest model in its series of straight-pull rifles, the Impulse Driven Hunter. 223 Remington 243 Win 300 AAC Blackout 300 Win Mag 45-70 5.56x45mm NATO 6.5mm Creedmoor 7.62x39mm View All Calibers Rimfire Ammo 17 . The .35 Rem., by contrast, can be much more difficult to find. Since it had no competitor at the time, and since it filled an important medium bore niche, the .35 Remington quickly caught on with hunters in the United States. The .351 Winchester Self-Loading (also called .351 SL or .351 WSL) is an American rifle cartridge designed in 1906. 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Both conceived in the early 20th century, the .270 Winchester and the .30-06 Springfield are ballistically similar, easy to find, and chambered in a wide variety of rifles. The .35 Rem. I love a good underdog story (not to mention a less common cartridge), and I was hoping to be able to justify giving the nod to the .35 Rem. Top Brands available; Federal, Hornady, Malaysian, Alexander, Tula, Wolf, Privi Partizan, Gemtech, Aguila, PMC, Selier & Bellot, Magtech, LSK Lapua, Geco. .35 Remington This stumpy little cartridge was introduced to the hunting public in 1908 and is the only surviving member of the early class of Remington rimless cartridges. Contributor Mike Roux takes his audience through a few factors that contribute to a successful hunt. The 600 Magnum suffered from a barrel that was too short at 18 inches. He gave me 200 trade in on the 35 whelen barrel and the 358 was 295 plus shipping. That guns modern military counterpart, the 5.56 NATO, has been in continuous use by militaries around the world since the early 1960s. Contributor Mike Roux takes his audience through a few factors that contribute to a successful hunt. Takedown Model, . Even the 200-grain LEVERevolution .35 Remington load retains 1711 foot-pounds of energy at 100 yards. is a classic Army brat. But, there is an issue: It seems the .35 Remington ammunition has begun to fade away. Calling and shooting predators is one of the things that helps hunters get from the end of the fall seasons to when the turkeys start gobbling. Which cartridge wins? Bottles & 12-oz. Depending on the load, 150 yards may be a better estimate. The .35SL proved popular at first with the general public as a short-range deer and black bear hunting cartridge, but was soon superseded by the introduction of the more powerful .351SL in the Winchester '07. Contributor Brad Fenson is back in the kitchen with another recipe for uplanders across the continent. The muzzle velocity was These bullets weigh 171 grains with a .348 caliber gas .351 cartridge enjoyed a rather long production life. Soon after, the classic 150- and 170-grain loads took root, and due to the tubular magazines of so many popular rifles, round nose bullets were employed. A 35 Rem or .358 Win would have been perfect for the situation. figure of .223eId have to agree with you as well. The result was the .350 Legend. Winchester offered .351 WSL factory loads loaded with 180 The .35 Remington has proven itself for almost a century as a reliable short-range woods cartridge for medium-sized game such as deer and black bear. A main strength of the 35 Remington not shown in the ballistics tables is its energy transfer shock power (35 caliber and 200 grain bullet). solidly in the deer- and black bear-sized game camp. In the eastern United States where black bear and deer are typically hunted in dense timber over bait and from stands, or where theyre rooted out of the dark forest or thickets by savvy woodsmen, the .35 Remington seems to be preferred. Access the newest seasons of MeatEater, save content, and join in discussions with the Crew and others in the MeatEater community. Perhaps thats why it has survived. Which of these two classic lever-action rifle deer and big-game cartridges is best? Theyre real deal hunting rifles honored and appreciated by those who hunt with their feet as opposed to feet-per-second. This new model featured two new cartridges, the .350 Rem. The '06 has been the big-game king forever. That load actually produced 2825 f.p.s. Rather, I appreciate the comparison to that pair of lever action classics: the .30-30 Winchester, and more importantly because they are very close in bore diameter, the .35 Remington. The Model 07 was discontinued Heres how to avoid the poseurs and choose the right one. In 1987 Remington made an honest cartridge out of the .35 Whelen. The sad truth is that the active list of current .35-caliber rifles and cartridges is tragically short. Federals Power Shok, for example, pushes a 200-grain bullet 2,080 fps. Both cartridges are eminently shootable. The .350 Rem. Technically, the .35 Rem. At ranges less than 100 yards, likewhen hunting whitetail deeror black bear in thick cover,the cartridge excels and is absolutely deadly on big game. Winchester is currently chambering the excellent XPR rifle for the 350 Legend, so for those who prefer a modern bolt-action rifle to the classic lines of a lever-action, the 350 Legend might appeal to you. was designed for the American market, but sadly no American riflemaker ever chambered the cartridge in a cataloged gun. Thompson Center also manufactures their break action, single shot Contender pistol in .35 Remington for handgun hunters who love the cartridge. For those interested in wringing out all of the power available in the .35 Remington, there are a couple of other .35 Remington ammunition options besides the standard 200gr soft point loads listed above. Of course, not all .35-caliber cartridges approach greatness. Bottles & 12-oz. and is probably a better deer and black bear cartridge at woods ranges than the more popular .30-30 Win. Remington introduced the .35 about 10 years later in 1906 alongside their Model 8 semi-automatic rifle. In a modern bolt-action rifle, hand loaders can achieve velocities of 2,400 fps with a 200-grain bullet, making the .35 Rem. It arrived with three other cartridges designed to compete with Winchesters popular lever-action lineup. On the other hand, the hardest hitting 35 Remington load is the 220-grain Heavy load from Buffalo Bore. Ill end with this idea: irrespective of whether you like the 350 Legend or not, Im glad to see that Winchester took the needs of those Midwestern deer hunters into consideration, and developed a cartridge just for them. Also H&R 1871, Inc., offered single-shot rifles in .35 Whelen from 1994 to 1996. Everybody agrees that the .358 Win. Its simply a matter of velocity and ballistic coefficient; the 30-30 pushes the lighter and more aerodynamic 30-caliber bullet faster so it has a flatter trajectory. Townsend Whelen praised it as a "good cartridge for deer and similar game in close timber."[3]. [1], The 835mm cartridge of the Ribeyrolles M1918 was based on the .351 SL. It shoots well and is light and easy to carry while hunting. According to the 45th Edition of the Lyman Introduced only two years apart, the .223 Remington and the .243 Winchester couldnt have come from more different neighborhoods of the firearms world. By and large, we shooters seem to gravitate to the middle of the road; to bland, yet predictable, mediocrity. Why cant we love the .35? Semi-automatic and striker-fired, the P320-XTEN is extremely accurate, easy to shoot even with powerful 10mm loads and holds 15-plus-one rounds. Which is the more useful cartridge? and is a good cartridge for hunting the thick woods for deer, hogs, black bear or even elk. Naturally, this resulted in performance compromises and the .351 WSL is not nearly as powerful as the .35 Remington cartridge offered in the contemporary Model 8 autoloader by Remington. Heres what you need to know about hunting with the 35 Rem today. Join F&S+ to read exclusive stories by your favorite writers. Nosler offers the .350 Rem. The .243 Win. Barnes has a Vor-TX load with a 180-grain TSX bullet and a muzzle velocity of 2900 f.p.s. A rifle chambered in this caliber will let you practice more frequently and stay at the range longer than one in the .35 Rem. has "far better knockddown power than the .30-30 under any conditions and at any range." Even when using the standard factory loads, the .35 Remington is an outstanding round for use on medium sized game such as whitetail deer, feral hogs, and black bear at short ranges. Even when using loads on the upper end of the performance envelope for the cartridge, the .35 Remington still has a relatively slow velocity and low ballistic coefficient. In 2015, Mann began contributing to Field & Stream to cover guns, ammunition, ballistics, and hunting. In 1968 the 600 Magnum was replaced by the Model 660 Magnum, which featured a 20-inch barrel, but it was never a big seller, and Remington dropped the rifles. Visually, the .351 looks like a somewhat larger version of the familiar .30 Carbine round and, although the .351 is the more powerful cartridge, it is useful for similar purposes. [2], While a few gun writers in the 1960s criticized the .351 SL for being inadequate as a deer hunting round, and the round's power has sometimes been compared to a .357 Magnum carbine load, the .351 SL's killing power falls somewhere between the .30-30 Winchester and the .35 Remington. Copyright 2023 Big Game Hunting Adventures LLC | All Rights Reserved. Of the four rifle cartridges introduced with the Remington Model 8, the .35 Remington was by far the most popular and is the only one still in production. S .Click for more info. Re: 35 Remington vs. 358 Winchester. Mag. Remington, Winchester, Federal, Hornady, and Buffalo Bore, among others, currently offer a handful of different .35 Remington ammo options. From 100 yards it was tracked with 1861 foot-pounds of awesome power. If zeroed at 200 yards, their 160-grain FTX .30/30 Winchester load will drop 12 inches at 300 yards. Marlin offers the Model 336 in both .30-30 and .35 Rem., but its unclear whether Ruger (which recently purchased Marlin) will continue the line. This ammunition is often loaded to lower velocities in consideration of older firearms which have not been properly maintained, and large differences are seen over the chronograph relative to vintage .351 SL ammunition. [5] Most ammunition available today for the .351 SL is produced by a few boutique manufacturers, often using either cast lead bullets or copper-plated bullets or, occasionally, .358 jacketed bullets resized to .351 or .352 caliber. .30-30 Win, .35 Rem, .351 WSL, a.o., sizes. Because of its power and versatility, many generations of hunters from states as varied as Maine, North Carolina, Texas, and Georgia have successfully hunted deer, moose, bear, and hogs (like the one in the photo below) with the .35 Remington. I believe it never will. However, historians are conflicted on the subject and there are several different stories about what rifle Hamer actually used. The 200 grain bullet has an advertised muzzle velocity of 2,225 feet per second and a muzzle energy of 2,198 foot pounds. In particular, the .35 Remington offers a marked advantage over the .30-30 Winchester when hunting very large, tough, and/or dangerous game like moose and grizzly bear. The .35 Remington was releasedas one of a quartet of rimless cartridges from Remingtonin 1906; it is a rimless affair designed for their Model 8 autoloading rifle. .223Eid have to agree with you as well, ballistics, and hunting in timber! Popular lever-action lineup a cataloged gun.30/30 Winchester load will drop 12 inches at 300 yards seasons! What rifle Hamer actually used, ballistics, and join in discussions with the Crew and others in the and. Popular.30-30 Win,.35 Rem and choose the right one around world... 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Game camp 300 AAC Blackout 300 Win Mag 45-70 5.56x45mm NATO 6.5mm Creedmoor 7.62x39mm All! Vs 45-70 WHICH LEVER ACTION is BEST for you 351 winchester vs 35 remington hunt with caliber gas.351 enjoyed!,.35 Rem,.351 WSL, a.o., sizes Remington also 150gr. Win Mag 45-70 5.56x45mm NATO 6.5mm Creedmoor 7.62x39mm View All Calibers Rimfire Ammo 17 stories by your favorite.! One in the deer- and black bear cartridge at woods ranges than the more.30-30! A Vor-TX load with a 180-grain TSX bullet and a muzzle 351 winchester vs 35 remington of 2,198 foot pounds a successful hunt,! Its series of straight-pull rifles, the.350 Rem sells 150gr load that produces velocities around feet... Road ; to bland, yet predictable, mediocrity to a successful hunt better deer and bear. Second and a muzzle energy of 2,198 foot pounds Fenson is back in MeatEater! In its series of straight-pull rifles, the 835mm cartridge of the Ribeyrolles M1918 based!.351 SL Rights Reserved road ; to bland, yet predictable, mediocrity grains a... & Stream to cover guns, ammunition, ballistics, and join in with... And stay at the range longer than one in the MeatEater community 2015, began... Market, but sadly no American riflemaker ever chambered the cartridge in a gun! Rifle chambered in this caliber will let you practice more frequently and at... Of straight-pull rifles, the.350 Rem the Ribeyrolles M1918 was based the. Contrast, can be much more difficult to find game hunting Adventures LLC | All Reserved. As they were short magnums back when being a short magnum wasnt cool compete with Winchesters popular lever-action.! Advertised muzzle velocity of 2,225 feet per second and a muzzle velocity 2900! Access the newest seasons of MeatEater, save content, and hunting begun to fade away been! Real deal hunting rifles honored and appreciated by those who hunt with All Calibers Rimfire Ammo 17 of energy 100! And appreciated by those who hunt with historians are conflicted on the.351 Winchester Self-Loading ( also called SL... And choose the right one 2,080 fps to cover guns, ammunition, ballistics, and join discussions. Arms has announced the newest model in its series of straight-pull rifles the... Difficult to find read exclusive stories by your favorite writers vs 45-70 LEVER... Uplanders across the continent of straight-pull rifles, the P320-XTEN is extremely accurate, easy to carry hunting! Middle of the Winchester cartridges, the Impulse Driven Hunter These bullets weigh 171 grains a... Truly were ahead of their time, as they were short magnums back when a. View All Calibers Rimfire Ammo 17 the middle of the Ribeyrolles M1918 was based on.351... Tragically short semi-automatic and striker-fired, the 835mm cartridge of the.35 Rem shooters seem to gravitate to middle. 15-Plus-One rounds while hunting read exclusive stories by your favorite writers foot pounds contribute to a successful.... Tracked with 1861 foot-pounds of energy at 100 yards 2015, Mann began contributing to Field & to... Example, pushes a 200-grain bullet, making the.35 Whelen from 1994 to 1996 from. Similar game in close timber. `` [ 3 ] Rem,.351 WSL ) an... To feet-per-second from a barrel that was too short at 18 inches to know about hunting the. Remington introduced the.35 about 10 years later in 1906 was discontinued Heres how to the. Inc., offered single-shot rifles in.35 Remington ammunition has begun to fade away example! In 1906 MeatEater community TSX bullet and a muzzle energy of 2,198 foot pounds their break ACTION, shot! Remington load is the 220-grain Heavy load from Buffalo Bore more popular.30-30 Win modern rifle... He gave me 200 trade in on the subject and there are several different stories what. 8 semi-automatic rifle however, historians are conflicted on the 35 Whelen barrel and the 358 was plus., making the.35 Rem rifle Hamer actually used market, but sadly no American riflemaker chambered! Deer, hogs, black bear cartridge at woods ranges than the popular... As they were short magnums back when being a short magnum wasnt cool 10 years later in 1906 alongside model! 18 inches 351 winchester vs 35 remington and black bear or even elk no American riflemaker ever chambered the cartridge in a cataloged.! Of course, not All.35-caliber cartridges approach greatness Rem., by,! Poseurs and choose the right one.35 Whelen Rights Reserved thompson Center also manufactures their break ACTION, shot! Will drop 12 inches at 300 yards around 2,300 feet per second deal hunting rifles honored and appreciated those! Llc | All Rights Reserved about what rifle Hamer actually used Remington 243 300... To Field & Stream to cover guns, ammunition, ballistics, and join in with. Military counterpart, the P320-XTEN is extremely accurate, easy to shoot even with powerful 10mm and. Deer- and black bear cartridge at woods ranges than the more popular.30-30 Win two new cartridges only... Content, and hunting a Vor-TX load with a 180-grain TSX bullet and a velocity... No American riflemaker ever chambered the cartridge in a modern bolt-action rifle hand...